Moonlight Feminists Podcast Episode #1: May
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Brenna Harding (B): This is a show that invites you to be part of an intimate conversation about feminism, friendship, passion and all those things that we're still learning. Enjoyed best with a glass of wine and a best mate, we'll be exploring the beauty and complexity of sharing perspectives and helping each other learn and grow. The guests on the podcast are members of the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club - a feminist discussion group that has been meeting monthly since June 2015. My name's Brenna Harding and this is Moonlight Feminists.
May Tran (M): This is insane!
B: I'm excited.
M: "You already have the vote." And I'm like, "Yeah. 'Cause that's enough." Oh! I guess I'm bisexual then! You are so engaging.
B: You win! You win! You haven't even started and you win!
M: Yeah, fuck that.
B: I think that there's definitely a swallowing of words in being a feminist.
M: Even when you are with like-minded people, you're going to have those conversations that really challenge you.
B: We affirm each other as people and not just as feminists.
M: I've said this before and I will always stand by it, when it comes to my identity I've always put my race in front of being a woman.
B: There is a real humility that comes from having to fight to occupy the space that you have a right to.
M: People come here to learn. Like we're kind of here to learn together.
B: Welcome to the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club's new podcast. Umm, we are here at sunny UTS with-
M: Sunny. It was sunny today.
B: It was, it's not sunny anymore-
B: It's now nighttime. We are drinking Oxford Landing Estate's Pinot Grigio 2015 from South Australia, out of white plastic cups-
M: From the Malaysian and Singaporean Society.
B: Thank you!
M: They're not our sponsors, they're just really great.
B: My name's Brenna Harding and I'm here with the wonderful May Tran.
B: A long time friend of mine, what, like, six years?
M: Six years. Maybe...maybe more-
B: We go back to pre-puberty. Sort of, like-
M: Yeah, we were like acquaintances for a while. Maybe it was because of girl hate.
B: It could have been because of girl hate. It's a real possibility. Alright, now, you are a member of the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club.
M: I am.
B: And how long have you been a member of the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club?
M: God, nearly a year now, we're coming up to our first year anniversary as we record this.
B: Yeah! Absolutely, it'll probably come out around that time. Yeah, cool. Okay, so, I wanted to ask you a few questions today May.
M: I would love to answer your questions.
B: I'm excited. Alright, so my first question, I wanted to know how you first came to feminism.
M: How I first came to feminism...God, umm, like many things in my life, I just kind of like, drifted into it. I don't think I've ever made a real choice to do anything. I just like happen to find myself in a situation where I'm like, Oh! I guess I'm bisexual then. I guess I'm a feminist now.
B: Oh, that's happening now.
M: Yeah. So I think, I mean it was probably when I was like 13 or 14. I spent a lot of time online, because I was an only child for a really long time. I lacked company so I turned to the internet. And being on tumblr, I think-
B: I remember those tumblr days.
M: Yeah, everyone's on tumblr and-
B: Well I never really found the feminist pockets of tumblr, did you find them-
M: Yeah, I found them pretty quickly. And everyone was really reactionary and posted a lot of comics and stuff that were like, "This is insane!" and yeah. I mean, it was very political. I got into that pretty quickly. You were like an aesthetic tumblr. You posted like really oversaturated pictures-
B: Pictures of girls with-
M: Daisies and-
B: Really long hair. Yeah. That, that tumblr is gone now. No one will ever find that again.
M: You had it up for a while, like I think I revisited it when you were like 16 and I was like this, This is embarrassing.
B: You need to get rid of that, I did. I got rid of it. I did. So, what does feminism mean to you now?
M: I mean it's one of the driving forces in my life. I don't think that I have a lot of friends who aren't feminists, so it's not even something that I talk about regularly but when we do get together at the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club, like the one time a month where I can be like, I have so many feelings about this, like so many feelings about women and feminism that I never really get to talk about because pretty much everyone I know, Yeah. Yeah of course. So, what does it mean to me? I don't know, I think that I have would have so little rights if it wasn't a thing that happened. I would like...suffragettes! I wouldn't be able to vote for...the first time-
B: Later this year.
M: Because I'm a child, I'm so young. Yeah, I don't know-
B: So what do you love about feminism?
M: What do I love about feminism? I always repeat your question afterwards, it's really obnoxious-
B: So you can edit me out.
M: It's just me talking the entire time with strange laughter. Currently what I love the most about feminism is how many wonderful like-minded that it's brought into my life. I think when are studying, working in a field like the arts, where it's pretty male dominated, as a lot of careers are, unless you're a nurse or a primary school teacher. You want to find like-minded artists, you wanna find people who think like you, who you won't have to argue with on every point of your journey in creating art. nd really, see the thing about feminism, when you have a person who is a feminist, you really take them for granted because you say stuff and they'll just be like, Yeah, of course. You start realising how important feminism is when you're in a group of people who don't identify as feminists and who have a lot of really deeply ingrained misogyny. And then you're like, "Oh, this is awful."
B: And where you'd usually be like, "Hurgh hurgh hurgh patriarchy bluegh." You're suddenly like, "Oh shit, I actually have to articulate something because you don't believe me." And is there anything you find difficult about being a feminist?
M: I think, I think feminism is a very difficult movement, mostly because even inside the movement itself there are so many people who disagree with each other. So, even when you are with like-minded people you're going to have those conversations that really challenge you. And even in- wine burp. I just wine burped.
B: It begins already!
M: No!! Tilly's just sitting outside listening to me wine burp. Yep. Yeah what's difficult about feminism, I think, of course, there are going to be those people outside the movement who don't really think that it's necessary. They're like, "You already have the vote." And I'm like, "Yeah. 'Cause that's enough. That's all I need. Every four years I can figure out who can fuck me over less." But I think when you get inside the movement and you're trying to work towards things and you have people who believe the same thing as you, essentially that women should be equal, who are like "Trans women aren't women." and you're like "Ohhhhhh. This is something we have to deal with as well." It's not a unanimous movement, there are so many fractures inside the movement itself that it makes it really difficult to function as a feminist. Because essentially most activists movements, you're trying to get shit done.
B: Yeah, absolutely.
M: And when most of the time is used arguing with other people in your movement, it fucks you over in that way.
B: Fractures it, it takes away from the cause. It sometimes feels like we have these arbitrary conversations and forget what we're fighting for. And what we're working towards.
M: Because we are. We are working towards something, it's not just arbitrary conversations in tiny booths. We're trying to do something.
B: Hey hey. Hey hey.
M: No, this is good. This is good.
B: Yeah, so, I guess because this is the Moonlight Feminists podcast, I should ask you a little bit about the group and maybe we can start with what you like about Moonlight Feminist Wine Club.
M: I mean I mentioned this before, but it's meeting other women who want to talk about this. I have so many friends who, I think it's just because they're lucky enough to not really experience misogyny or maybe they haven't really registered a lot of the micro-aggressions but kind of getting together with people who are like "Yeah, fuck that."
B: Yeah totally.
M: Getting people who want to talk about it instead of being like, "Hey, can we talk about something lighter? Can we talk about something less heavy?" I get that so much, and it always reminds me, Oh, so many people don't want to be dealing with this, they don't want to be talking about it. So coming to Moonlight Feminists once a month and being able to be like, "So this thing sucks-" and having everyone be like, "Yeah! It does suck!" It's really good to have a place to vent.
B: A dedicated wine space. W-H-I-N-E.
M: Where we can drink wine and eat pie. Yeah, so that's definitely my favourite thing about the group.
B: Do you have a favourite memory of a particular instance?
M: Yeah, I do. It was a really recent one but I think about it every day. And it's barely even related to feminism. It was during the Anarchy 15™ when someone brought up anarchy and we were like, okay, this is going to go one forever, we need to cap this conversation, we're gonna give this conversation 15 minutes.
B: Everyone thought I was joking but I actually put a timer on.
M: And it was good. Like, it was good you put a timer on because we finished the conversation with this gem. Where Ruby, who's a member, told us about a time she was sitting in front of an anarchists' hangout and she watched this kid skateboard out and skateboarded up to her bus stop and she was like, "Fuck, he's gonna give me a flyer." and then he takes a Dynamo label maker out of his bag and starts typing in something and she's just sitting there watching him. And then he takes it out and he reaches over and he puts on the bus stop this little label that says "Fuck The Police" with a skull and crossbones. And I was like, I can't believe this is not satire, I can't believe this isn't a joke that you just made up.
B: Knowing Ruby's sense of humour, she probably could've.
M: It was really beautiful. And it was barely related to feminism, but I think that's one of the good things, I mean we do get off topic a lot. We do get off topic a lot, but it's all pretty much about feminists.
B: And in getting off topic, we sort of, we strengthen each other in many different ways, we affirm each other as people not just as feminists. Which I think is really wonderful and realise that it's a process of growth not just in the feminist discourse but beyond and that process of supporting each other.
M: Yeah and I think, I didn't say this before but one of my favourite things about the club is that we've put such an emphasis on the fact that people come here to learn. All the women who come to the club are not there to rip each other apart because they don't know every single thing about feminism, we're kind of here to learn together. And I think, even with the anarchy story, that was an anecdote to educate. We're getting together and trying to teach each other things that are relevant to the movement. And in a really loving way, which is another one of my problems with feminism. So much of the discourse these days is hyper-intellectual stuff that is used to belittle someone else. And usually someone else not even against the movement. Someone who is just very new to it. Like the fetal feminists, which is a term that you have coined.
B: Fetal feminists, for listeners who don't know what it is. I coined this term a while ago when I felt like I was in a position in the feminist community where I was still really, really new and I thought that I was going to trip over a lot and I thought that I was going to fuck up. And I really felt like I needed to be encased in the womb of the feminist movement and have it feed me nutrients and help me to be able to walk on my own. And I definitely think that I reached that point where I did have the strength and the confidence to feel like I could walk away from that. But I think it's a process and stage that a lot of people go through, most feminists I would argue. And it's something that we really need to value and treasure and look up to as a really important part. Because we're all in a constant process of growth and somewhere within us there is definitely an issue that is more fetal to us.
M: And I think it's such a, the fetal feminism stage of everyone's feminism is so important because so many young women leave the movement when they're starting out because of how tough it is right now.
B: Being called out when you've just sort of started to find your feet with something is, it's a really scary experience. And it took me a while to kind of come to the realisation that actually I have a grounding and I have a confidence because I have experiences as a woman that I can bring and perspectives that I can bring.
M: But like, most of all, you have the ability to listen. And that's something you can have. You can listen to other women's experiences and that's something that's so important in every step of your journey as a feminist.
B: And that's something that everyone has the ability to do.
M: Well, except for deaf people.
B: They can listen through sign.
M: They can.
B: Have you had any changes of perspective from Moonlight Feminists that you can think of? Any particular ones, even small ones?
M: I mean, the issues that arise when we start talking about issues in feminism that aren't Western feminist issues. Because it's something that we don't have to experience so we never think that it's something that I'm very interested in and want to look up and educate myself about. So definitely the issues that arise around religion. Because I grew up Catholic, I was raised in a Catholic household and that was really what I was, what I knew. Like I've read the bible, I've read the bible, it's super interesting. Very contradictory. But when it comes to other religions I was never super interested in them because after I left the church, after I stopped being a believer I didn't have an interest in any other religions. I never wanted to be like I'm not Catholic so I'm gonna start studying Islam or Judaism. It was never a huge thing for me so when it comes to issues like - everyone talks about it on the news, like, Is the hijab oppressive to women? Or like, Is the burqa a security threat? It's nothing that I've really thought about until it was brought up really recently in my life. And it's definitely those conversations that we have in our meetings about that stuff, like female genital mutilation. Like we just had that conversation last month. Where I was like, I never thought about it like that. I always, you really come from a certain point of view. Who said that, that we can never really have an unbiased view on Eastern feminist issues, non-Western feminist issues because we were raised in this society and that's something that's so ingrained in us.
B: I think things that Moreblessing said definitely touched on that, absolutely. And I think that coming to a conclusion in a group of 17 people that we can't make judgements on this situation is something that's really powerful because it's really easy to sit there and discount your own opinion. And be like, Aw, maybe I just don't know enough but when you come to it as a collective it really informs the way in which, I guess, ideally the way the feminist movement would operate. In where they don't try to speak over or on behalf of people who they can't understand their culture. I mean, Moreblessing said something about the fact that simply the community that you're raised in. Our communities are much more individualistic in that sense and so things like female genital cutting, the community consequences, it's more a community thing than it is an individualistic thing particularly. But we're looking at it from a very individual point of view. So yeah, that really changed my perspective as well. Are there any particular topics that you enjoy talking about at Moonlight Feminists?
M: I think something that comes a lot, especially when we get new members in, is the idea of moving away from being a cool, gentle feminist. That feminism that everyone kind of, like we really start off with it, where you wanna hide behind something else, because feminism for a lot of people isn't something that is widely talked about. So you want to be like, "Yeah I'm really, I'm feminist but I'm cool. Like I'll listen to your joke about raping women and I'm just gonna stare at you instead of actually call you out on the fact that, that was super fucked up."
B: I'm not gonna disrupt the social script just to bring my perspective.
M: Totally. And I think that we do have really interesting conversations about that because pretty much every single feminist has gone through the stage where they've been like, "I don't wanna offend anyone, like I believe in women's rights and I believe that we should be equal but I don't wanna get in anyone's way. I don't want to push my ideas on anyone." But when you get down to it, our ideas are basically the equality of the sexes which is like, Yeah. Of course. So why shouldn't that idea be something that you're very proud of and that you're not afraid to talk about at parties. How many conversations have you had at parties, about feminism, where you've kind of backed off a little because you've thought "This person's a stranger, we're drinking, we're meant to be having fun and I don't want to bring the vibe down."
B: Or even what people talk about a lot in Moonlight Feminists is having those conversations with family members and just being like, "There's only so much I can move forward." And people being like, "Hey your grandfather grew up in a different time, you have to respect where he's come from." And you have to pull back and have to, I guess it's a different context but I think there's definitely a swallowing of words, a lot, in being a feminist and operating in particular social spheres. Is there anything that you haven't had the opportunity to talk about before that you then talked about in Moonlight Feminists?
M: ... I mean like I said before I don't really have those conversations in every day life.
M: Not because the people around me aren't feminists, but because they are, and it's just assumed that we agree on those things.
M: So a lot of the stuff i come into Moonlight Feminists talking about, like; intersectional feminism and being really disappointed with the feminist movement sometimes, um... Being really disappointed with the feminist movement sometimes because it is so exclusive of women of colour is something that I wouldn't be like, I wouldn't go out to lunch with someone and be like, "Look, you know whats really pissing me off today"... And so coming into that space and being able to just be like, "This is something that's really bothering me", and coming into a space that's not all women of colour as well, like there are so many different people, with different experiences who come into this space and who get to talk about their experiences, that you don't really feel afraid to share your own.
B: Totally, It blows my mind when we get together, I think, I've told you this before but i always have this sort of anxiety when i come into moonlight feminists, that like, it won't be as good as it's been before, and like it won't happen and i'll have to drive the conversation or whatever, but every single time, it has a completely different personality based on the girls who come and the experiences and the perspectives that they bring and i never know what to expect from an individual person because everyone has such a different perspective on each issue, so i find it yeah, really enriching to see that and to learn from that.
M: And I think a lot more feminist spaces should be like that; they should allow women to learn and kind of share their own experiences. I think the problem with a lot of women only spaces, is that they're actually pretty exclusionary, not in the fact that only women can be there but only a certain kind of woman.
M: Only a certain kind of woman can come in and share their experiences, and get sympathy for that, which is such a problem, and something we've talked about at the meetings as well.
M: It's such an issue, um, I don't have words.
B: Yeah, right, yeah... Is there anything you've ever wanted to say at Moonlight Feminists that you haven't ?
M: God, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty, like, I'm pretty forthcoming
B: You are pretty forthcoming.
M: ...with everything I want to say, I usually bring it up pretty quickly.
B: Yeah you do.
M: And if I don't it's usually because I'm too drunk and have forgotten. Like I've just forgotten what I needed to say.
B: One of the main foils of it being a wine club, absolutely.
M: I think in any setting, where you, are drinking, you kind of lose, a bit of the conversation.
B: This is very true.
M: So it's good that we're recording this, cause like I haven't eaten all day, and I'm really enjoying this wine.
B: So you can actually experience this conversation, because you can listen back to it rather than having to remember it, type thing.
M: It's a good idea! We should record every single meeting.
B: We should record every conversation we have! Um, okay, so this is probably one of my favourite questions, um, because I think it's really important, and I think it's really special, is there any Moonlighter that you've particularly connected with, and why?
M: It is a good question...
B: It's a great question, because that's what we're all about.
M: Ooooh, there are so many to choose from.
B: There are so many to choose from, you can have more than one, but like, try for one.
M: Okay, Umm.
B: It's like choosing out of your children right?
M: I know, it's absolutely like choosing out of my children. I can't do that. Apparently parents do.
B: Yeah yeah yeah, I totally think...
M: Like, that ones shit...
B: Which one do you think your parents like better?
M: Uh, right now Catelinh, cause she's 5 and she adorable.
B: Yeah, she's pretty cute.
M: I get in trouble a lot
B: Yeah, Right.
M: Do things that make them unhappy, and Cate's just like 5, reading well, so. My favourite, who I've identified with most. It's either got to be Ruby or Moreblessing.
B: Yeah, cool.
M: I'll talk about Moreblessing first, um, Moreblessing has only started coming really recently.
B: Yeah, she's been to a couple.
M: Her experience as a woman of colour and her, kind of like, points of view, I notice a lot... I notice a lot that she doesn't talk, until, pretty much everyone has spoken, and she can kind of come forward with an idea, and usually it's just kind of so profound...
B: It's explosive.
M: Like Oh My God. I mean I think she's one of the people who I've learned the most from.
B: Yeah, that's true.
M: Just because, she has such a different point of view, on so many issues, like it's obvious that she's though about this stuff, of so long, and she has a lot to say.
B: She's a really great listener as well.
M: Absolutely. I think that's like an invaluable skill.
B: And being able to let everyone else have that platform and have that moment, is something that's really close to the values of Moonlight Feminists, to try and understand that everyone needs to try and speak up.
M: And I guess, that one of the reasons, that I really adore Ruby as well, because whenever she comes she has such like, her discourse is on point.
B: Oh it is!
M: Like she debates. Everyone's just like "You are so engaging."
B: You win, You win, you haven't even started and you win!
M: Yeah! But, I think any feminist, who comes from, almost like, a background of adversity, women who struggle with; racial discrimination and mental health issues and stuff, I really just kind of identify with, because they've had so much to work against...
B: Yeah, totally.
M: To come to a place, where they're, stable and happy in their feminism.
B: Yeah, absolutely.
M: And I think I've had that as well where I, you know kind of had to deal with a lot of issues, in my life, in order to kind of be happy with, my feminism.
B: Yeah yeah yeah.
M: And have my space, and have people who will listen, who I want to listen to.
B: Yeah, totally, yeah. I think I have, to not as strong a degree, but to some degree have found that, in growing up with Lesbian parents and the Gay community, it's really given me an appreciation for the fight and the struggle, and that we don't always start out on top, there is a real humility and a real humbleness, that comes from having to fight, to occupy the space you have a right to... And i think that that's a beautiful thing, that makes feminists like you, my favourite feminists.
M: Cheers! It's getting so hot in here!
B: It is getting hot, it's getting hot in here... yep, I'm not going to sing, you can sing, you're a good singer.
M: Thank you.
B: Do want to sing us a song May, as a little interlude.
M: Oh god I really don't.
B: Can you sing us something from Spring Awakening? Can you tell us why you love Spring Awakening? This is a little interlude.
M: Okay this is a little interlude, why do I love Spring Awakening, I just saw Spring Awakening twice, in the last week and a half.
M: Which is completely sold out, by the way, they did this thing that they never do at ATYP, where they like, put on another show... they added another show to the run.
M: Right? And uh it's, really good, cause it has everything, angsty German teens, abortion, suicide.
M: Happening to a bunch of 15 year olds
B: Yeah, of course.
M: Which is actually, pretty realistic, teenagers are rarely PG.
B: They really aren't. I think like as a 20 something, I'm like uni, home, sleep, food... I'm more PG than most 14/15 year olds.
M: Yeah, they have so much time.
B: They do!
M: Yeah they do.
B: So will you sing us a short...
M: No I'm not going to sing you a song from Spring Awakening I'm just going to..
B: NOOO COME ON.
M: ... I'm just going to tell you why I love it.
B: Okay, fine. Aw, I really wanna hear a song!
M: It opens with "Mama, Who Bore Me". I mean.
B: May is super talented and she's really not flaunting it right now.
M: Thank you, I've just like, I've had wine and I'm...
B: Come on.
M: Just, let it happen naturally.
B: Alright, alright.
M: God. Yeah "Mama Who Bore Me" which is a song about female sexuality, and female self image and love, and loving yourself, and being in a place where you have a barrier, to that self love,
M: Damn and the way that, musical ended, doing that like, "Song of Purple Summer", and Wendla comes out again in the same way she did in "Mama Who Bore Me" with the candle, and looks at herself
M: And instead of freaking out, and eventually dying from a botched abortion, she just smiles, and yeah, like that's a pretty choice.
M: Which is weird.
B: Which is what we should all do.
M: Which is where I want all 15 year olds to be, just checking themselves out in the mirror, and being like, yeah, that's me, that's pretty neat. Interlude over.
B: Interlude is over, and I didn't get a song so I'm pretty upset. Okay, um, so, in the, this is probably the wrong way to put it but like, I'm just going to ask you the question...
M: Okay, just ask the question.
B: I wanted to know, if there's any personal passions of yours, in the feminist movement?
M: Well I've said this before and I will always stand by it that when it comes to my identity I've always, put my race, in front of being a woman, because, a lot of what I've experienced, as a human being, exploring this world, has been racially motivated. And so when it comes to my feminism, I'm very much an intersectional feminist...
M: And one who focuses on race. Pretty much all my views, regarding feminism, are through the lens of that, of like an Asian woman.
M: Rather than like, just a woman, which like I get, and I've spoken about this before, when a woman looks in the mirror, they are like, I am a woman, I'm like I'm an Asian woman and like a few weeks ago I was like, I'm an Asian woman on crutches because I've sprained my ankle in a drunken incident. But like, men look in the mirror and they're like yeah, that's me That's Gary, and then they are like, cool, lets go to work, but like women are always very aware of the fact, that, that is the body and space, that they inhabit, they are like, I am a woman. And I think, race really comes into that for me.
B: Yeah right.
M: Which I'm always trying to educate myself on, on issues of race, especially regarding feminism. Because I think they tie into each other so much.
M: Like, the kind of discrimination that African American women face is so different, than that, of other women.
B: Mmmm, totally.
M: Like the issues, that Latina women face, are so different, like, all those issues, tie into each other, but the extra element of being a woman of colour, affects that in a huge way.
M: There's like an extra element that really colours your experiences, and so, when it comes to my passions, I think, I'm always going to fight so hard, for the equality of Women of Colour because it's something that is out of the reach for so many of us.
M: It's something that especially, a lot of our cultures, aren't super adhering to. So, and, it is tough because, because those cultures don't adhere to the feminist ideal so many of these women are really happy where they are. Last week we spoke about how in Japan, so little of the female Japanese population, are in the workplace...
B: Yeah yeah yeah.
M: A lot of them are stay at home mothers. They look after their homes. Um, but so many Japanese women are like, stay at home mothers and like, homemakers essentially. And as western women we're like but shouldn't they have the choice to work? But when you're talking to these women, they're like, absolutely I love the fact that I get to stay at home, and my husband goes out and is the one who makes the money, and in the case of the women who do want to work, a lot of them get the chance to, but there's a lot of like, discrimination in the workplace. But when it comes to women of colour there is such a huge history, of them being spoken over, of their desires and their needs being completely steamrolled by people who don't understand their culture and who don't understand their desires and so I think that's a huge passion of mine because I'm so dedicated to giving them a platform to express what they actually want because rather than someone being like - "this is what you want right?"
M: Of course this is what you want.
B: Yeah totally.
M: Because it so rarely is.
B: Yeah absolutely...so are there any particular changes you would like to see, in the near and far future? I mean not just necessarily in the feminist movement but in the world. Let's say you could have anything May, three wishes!
M: Three wishes, I would pay my parents mortgage.
M: Whenever mothers day comes around, it really stresses me out because my mother deserves like an island, and I can just, I have to give her, breakfast in bed and a candle. It's such a stressful, it's like, I can't give everything... I would pay my parent's mortgage, definitely.
B: Okay three wishes, three wishes that are changes
M: That are changes to the world
B: That are changes to society, yes.
M: Okay, I think, like more intersectionality in every single feminist, I think every single woman should be regarded as equal, in the feminist movement.
M: Like, we're fighting so hard to do that, in a mans world, under their terms as well. Like what is equality, do I really want to be one of those, badass CEOs? Not really, because that is like such a man made construct, being like, kind of a dick, doing cocaine off a hooker, that's like something, that not a lot of women want. I think the most important thing to me, is not seeing women who are badass in the way that men are but having female strength be acknowledged, as being, as powerful, as male strength. Why is it, that stay at home mums are told by feminists, that they need to, like, work. See obviously not all feminists, not all feminists think this, but there was this huge thing about stay at home mothers, kind of like, not being good feminists because they're staying home they're looking after their kids and that's the traditional female role, but that is just as powerful as a masculine role.
B: Yeah, right.
M: See I think female strength is so...
M: Undervalued, like it's something that I think, is incredible, and we need to shift our thinking. Not the fact that women should be doing things that make them seem, more masculine. Like in a lot of films these days, when you look at the empowered female character, they like, murder someone... Like something like that, something hyper violent, and like yeah, you're really cool and like badass but, my mother is a very strong woman and her strength throughout the year, raising me, has been completely undervalued by society, so I think that's where we need to change our thinking.
B: Yeah absolutely. So was that intersectionality and valuing female strength did you want one more wish or are you happy with those two?
M: Oh okay I get one more wish.
B: You can have one more! and then we'll grant it after this episode ends.
M: Yes! That's all I've ever wanted... Oh okay, I have to think really hard about this because I only have one...
B: Do you need some more wine?
M: I do need some more wine.
B: I have a little bit of wine for you.
B: Sponsored by, none as of yet... So if you'd like to sponsor our wine, please contact us.
M: We're on every social media site. Ugh, god, one more wish. Uh I don't know, I just want us to all just like get along.
B: Yeah, that's be cool...
M: It would just be good for us to stop, tearing each other down, because we want to feel better about ourselves.
B: True. Maybe we could all just be really great listeners.
B: Like, people who like actually want to support each other, they're not out for themselves.
M: Which is hard, it's like a humanity thing, like, Capitalism is so perfect for our race, because that's all we have, we're just out for ourselves, like I wish, we were all Bernie Sanders, but that's not happening.
B: So, do you have any projects that you're focusing you're passion on at the moment. Whether it be feminist passion or other passion, it can be any passions.
M: Right, I mean I'm working on this.
B: Yeah, you are, indeed.
M: I'm working on this, I'm part of
M&B: The Moonlight Feminist Media Team.
B: May is a very valued member of the Moonlight Feminist Media Team and does all the things I cannot do, like, technological stuff, we're both studying Media Arts and Production and...
M: And you always freak out around cameras.
B: I can't do cameras. I can't do computers, I can't do software, I can't do programs. But that's alright.
M: That is alright.
B: It strengthens our relationship.
M: It does.
B: We've got this working relationship going.
M: We complement each other.
B: Absolutely. May's also really good at social media and, um, when we were in high school, we started the sort of, gay straight alliance called All Sorts, which tied in with Wear It Purple, which is this awesome, youth run, sort of anti-homophobia organisation, and May and I started that and May did a lot of the Facebook page which was really, really, cool. And we got a little community going which was really wonderful.
M: They were.
M: We made a bookshelf last year.
B: That's fantastic.
M: The rainbow bookshelf happened.
B: The rainbow bookshelf happened, I'm so glad about that, and yeah, we had the counsellor come and tell us that, like, for the first time, gay kids were talking about their same sex relationships in counselling, in their counselling sessions, which was really really cool and we saw the first lesbian couples holding hands in the playground which was the introduction of Wear It Purple so, we've had some really great achievements together.
B: I'm really glad you're working on this project with me it's really fantastic.
M: I'm also glad.
B: Yeah yeah, do you have anything else that you're driving you're passion into? Is this
M: I'm doing a lot of theatre right now, I'm writing a play, I just workshopped it.
B: You're writing a play?
M: I'm writing a play, I just had it workshopped.
B: Oh that's so cool.
M: So I had people read it for the first time, the opening scene, and i was like uhhh!
M: It's always so nerve-wracking having, like people see your work.
B: Yeah, totally.
M: That's a bundle of fun. Honestly everything I touch is like, super feminist. Has like a feminist edge to it.
B: Are you going to share with us what it's about, or is it still, really in the works?
M: Oh, yeah... Yeah, I'll share, what it's about.
B: What's it about?
M: It is about, um, four people, three of which have been friends for years and, um, one of the trio beats his girlfriend, in like a fit of rage he beats his girlfriend, but he and his two best friends and his girlfriend had all planned to go down to a beach house...
B: Yeah, right.
M: And so they decide, like, fuck it, we'll do it anyway, because we don't want to waste our money because we're poor uni students. Which is really relatable.
B: Super relatable.
M: So they all go down and it's eventually, essentially rather, takes time over an evening, closed time, closed space.
B: Yeah, cool.
M: Where they're kind of, dealing with each other, and the idea of like, loyalty, and like your own morality, when they start to clash.
B: Yeah, right.
M: Where do you go with that.
M: Which is a lot of fun to do.
M: So pretty dark.
M: But I'm having a lot of fun writing it.
B: It sounds super interesting, I'll be really excited to read it. Super cool maybe we can publish it on the blog.
B: The Moonlight Feminist Wine blog.
M: Yeah, which is, which we're plugging, right now.
B: Yeah, this is a plug. *Laughs* Just in case you didn't notice.
M: I feel as if we should have recorded, a really good plug.
M: Before we started drinking wine, like visit our blog.
B: Yeah like sgghth fjkri dlrr. Yeah, no, the blogs going to be really cool though because we're getting submissions from anyone...
B: ... from the group that wants to submit. There's going to be photography. There's going to be illustrations and art. There's also going to be writing, creative writing and think pieces.
B: Music as well, and film pieces if anyone wants to do them. And now, like, a play.
M: Scripts, a full fledged play.
B: So it's really just about, people having a platform, and a place to contribute, we want it to be a really vibrant space where, you can find somewhere, someone that you connect to, um, in this large spectrum of people, because we all have different perspectives, and we're all going to empathise with different things, and you can never predict what that's going to be so...
M: That was such a long, run on sentence, that was just so many words.
B: Yeah i would have got marked down for that. If this was uni, but this is not uni, thank god.
B: So um, I have one last question for you May.
M: Please ask me it.
B: So, at the beginning of every Moonlight Feminist Wine Club we have an opening question, we ask this to the group, and um, that sort of, i guess in some ways, sets the tone for the night... And I was wondering if you could sort of set that opening question, what would it be?
M: Holy Shit.
B: I know, right.
M: that's such a loaded question, that's just like...
B: This is really just like me, making you do my homework, because, I'm really bad at coming up with these. Like the number of times people have been like; "Brenna, you've asked that question before", and I'm like "Shit!" I used different words.
M: You always hope, that there are enough different people there that like, none will call you out on it.
B: Except you're always there!
M: I know I'm always there
B: Uh, huh, uh, huh.
M: Like mmmmm you already asked that before. Oh, I think because there was this one moment over the past week, that has just, really like affirmed my, like, faith, in like the feminist movement...
M: I would ask, what has made... What has affirmed your faith in the feminist movement, right.
M: Because I think, I think when someone who has recently, or like previously, been a bit ignorant, kind of like, comes to the dark side, the feminist side. When you see them again, and like their discourse is like, on point, it really, like, it really lights a fire in you, it reminds you that there are people still out there who are still learning.
M: And I think, like something along the lines that, like.
M: I think I've had like too much wine to articulate that...
B: Hey, I really liked that question.
M: ...really insightful question. Yeah
B: I think we'll have to give that one a whirl. Anyway, thank you so much, for coming on.
M: No, thank you.
B: First Episode of the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club.
M: So exciting.
B: Right here. That was a fist bump, right there. thank you so much for being a part of the media team, also thanks to Matilda Fay, who is, listening to this conversation with avid ears, and is going to help us put it all together. This project is run, entirely by volunteer hours, and that's a really, really cool thing for a cause that we really care about, and a community that we really want to create, so thank you so much for being on board, and thank you for joining me here. I hope...
M: Thank you for having me.
B: ...that it is something we can continue to share.
M: Absolutely... This was cool.
B: Thank you so much for listening, this podcast is only possible because of the time and dedication of Matilda Fay and May Tran who edit the show. Enormous love and gratitude, also, to all the members of the Moonlight Feminist Wine Club, and all feminists out there, you are my strength, you are my hope, you are the warmth in my heart. Please make sure you check out our blog at; moonlightfeminists.com that features incredible creations from the minds and hearts of the Moonlight Feminists, you can also find us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Thanks again for being with us, and see you same time next month.